rec.heraldry Google Group

School of Oriental and African Studies, London

2010-03-18T16:42:57Z

I was wondering if someone could help me with this very distinctive
coat of arms - I have found a black and white image, and a blazon of
the shield: "Argent a cross gules in the first quarter a sword in pale
points upwards of the last on a chief also gules an open book proper
between a lotus bud on the dexter and a lotus slipped and leaved on

Re: Does the Holy Father grant arms to devout catholics on behalf of the Holy See and Vatican?

2010-03-16T17:47:38Z

Very Droll Pan Lucki :)
I have a feeling that our dear Mr Poursuivant is rather young and full
of Piss and Vinegar. Let's not
discourage the poor fellow, in discovering the wonderful complexities
of Heraldry.
Cheers;
Capt Chledowski

Re: Duke ready to give up title

2010-03-16T09:28:48Z

This is indeed the case. He is out of time.
Martin

Re: Duke ready to give up title

2010-03-15T19:01:19Z

I don't think he intends to dislaim, but merely to cease using his
title.
Frankly, I think it's all hot air; the interviewer caught him on a bad
day!
Richard L

Re: Duke ready to give up title

2010-03-15T18:38:09Z

It may perhaps be worth pointing that, without a change in the law, he
can't disclaim.

Re: Does the Holy Father grant arms to devout catholics on behalf of the Holy See and Vatican?

2010-03-15T18:03:18Z

I think that this all goes back to th larger question, namely: has the
Pope recognized this specific name and title in the past? If so, then
it would be matriculation. If not, then I'm afraid that the advice
about the difficulty of the project has the leading edge.
If a Cronista can find such evidence, and if the lineage is worked out

Re: Different heraldic traditions applied to signet rings

2010-03-15T11:17:30Z

The Poursuivant <english.heral...@googlemail.c om> wrote in news:076c0bd6-
5ad9-4236-9706-757a3733e...@a1 8g2000yqc.googlegroups.com:
A signet ring was sometimes the gift from English parents to offspring
reaching their majority, even among non-armigers. My father's signet was a
griffin's head erased with a foul anchor incised on the neck done in lapis

Re: Different heraldic traditions applied to signet rings

2010-03-15T09:44:50Z

On 15 Mar, 06:41, The Poursuivant <english.heral...@googlemail.c om>
wrote:
Why the obsession with signet rings?
Richard L

Re: Different heraldic traditions applied to signet rings

2010-03-15T06:41:53Z

By the way gentlemen, how deep exactly is deep engraving on a signet
ring? 1mm? 2mm?
Do English people only ever wear gold signet rings or sometimes signet
rings that are set with a semi-precious stone such as agate or
carnelian, ruby etc...? I wear a plain gold one but I seem to meet a
lot of people who engrave the crest & wreath into the surface of a

Re: Does the Holy Father grant arms to devout catholics on behalf of the Holy See and Vatican?

2010-03-14T19:04:55Z

Corrections: life peers are apparently "peers" but not "nobility", at
least according to a cursory research. I'm not sure if there's a
legal distinction or it's purely a matter of custom.

Re: Does the Holy Father grant arms to devout catholics on behalf of the Holy See and Vatican?

2010-03-14T16:47:49Z

I stand corrected re: US and titles. Still, the papal counts granted
since the last century or so are considered honorary by the Pope's
decree, not due to any US laws.
As for my admittedly idiosyncratic definition: grants of the type you
mentioned are still attached to a "fief", even if the connection is

Re: Does the Holy Father grant arms to devout catholics on behalf of the Holy See and Vatican?

2010-03-14T14:13:46Z

By this standard, no British peerage granted for the last several
centuries would fall within your idiosyncratic definition of "title,"
since none of them have involved "feudal title to a fief." Being
Viscount Montgomery of Alamein didn't give Field Marshal Montgomery
any feudal rights to the village on the Egyptian coast, unfortunately

Re: Does the Holy Father grant arms to devout catholics on behalf of the Holy See and Vatican?

2010-03-14T14:08:37Z

US citizens are not barred from receiving foreign noble titles. That
prohibition (found in art. I, sec. 9 of the Constitution) applies only
to those holding "an office of profit or trust" under the United
States. And it doesn't differentiate between nobiliary and honorary
or hereditary and non-hereditary titles--it says "any present,

Re: Does the Holy Father grant arms to devout catholics on behalf of the Holy See and Vatican?

2010-03-14T13:50:36Z

Outis <ulys...@gmail.com> wrote in news:3459867f-f6f8-4a33-9133-
4685aa37b...@q16g2000yqq.googl egroups.com:
This has been discussed at length in the NG. No, U.S. citizens are not
barred, it is only office holders who are barred from receiving foreign
titles.
Article I Section 9: "No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United

Re: Does the Holy Father grant arms to devout catholics on behalf of the Holy See and Vatican?

2010-03-14T09:40:18Z

Not quite. These "titles" are _not_ nobiliary, but honorary. They
are not hereditary and not recognised anywhere outside the Church.
This is why Kennedy and McCormack are able to receive them in the
first place -- US citizens are otherwise barred from receiving foreign
noble titles.
But I see that I had not been precise in my explanation. The Pope