Google Mail Calendar Documents Reader Web more »
Recently Visited Groups | Help | Sign in
Google Groups Home
Message from discussion Some Broundgreaking Thoughts on $H and DIPS
The group you are posting to is a Usenet group. Messages posted to this group will make your email address visible to anyone on the Internet.
Your reply message has not been sent.
Your post was successful
 
From:
To:
Cc:
Followup To:
Add Cc | Add Followup-to | Edit Subject
Subject:
Validation:
For verification purposes please type the characters you see in the picture below or the numbers you hear by clicking the accessibility icon. Listen and type the numbers you hear
 
Eric M.Van  
View profile  
 More options Jan 3 2001, 2:18 am
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: "Eric M.Van" <em...@post.harvard.edu>
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 02:17:28 GMT
Local: Wed, Jan 3 2001 2:17 am
Subject: Re: Some Broundgreaking Thoughts on $H and DIPS

Dale Hicks wrote:

> Eric M.Van <em...@post.harvard.edu> wrote in article <3A524E87.E7267...@post.harvard.edu>...

> > So: because of small sample sizes, differences in pitcher $H are *very* hard to
> > detect statistically.  But that doesn't mean they're non-existent or even
> > trivial in size.

> Do you concur, Voros?  You said that any ability was below
> the noise floor, IIRC.  He says this, then says the effect
> isn't trivial.

> > The apparent difference between Maddux and Glavine over their
> > joint career in Atlanta, in terms of ERA, is about 0.20.  That's not trivial.

> So their BB, K, and HR rates are equivalent, and only the $H
> makes up that difference?

> -

No, I'm estimating that, of the difference in ERA (2.43 vs. 3.25) since they've
been  teammates, about 0.24 (revised estimation) comes from $H.  That's a good
30% of the difference.

That Voros claimed, in trying to explain correlation, that lack of correlation
implies small variance, is the key to misunderstanding the error of his claim.
There is no signal, no matter how humongous, that can't be rendered difficult or
impossible to detect by adding enough noise (often in the form of the noise
inherent in small sample sizes).  *That doesn't make the signal smaller.*

$H has so much noise added to it that it's very hard to nail down.  That
absolutely, positively does not mean that differences between $H talents must be
tiny.

Here it is in a nutshell:

Maddux with Atlanta (excluding '79) is .271,  Glavine is .282.  Draw, for each
one, a bell curve whose peak is centered at that number.   The bell curve is a
probability graph for their *true* number.  

Stats like K% and BB& have very narrow bell curves.  Thus, we can say for
certain that Pedro's K ability is truly better than Toma Ohka's.  $H has a
fairly broad bell curve, so broad that they overlap quite a bit for Maddux and
Glavine, or for almost any two pitchers.  That makes it impossible to say *for
certain* that one is better than the other at $H.

HOWEVER, broadening the bell curves DOES NOT change the position of the peaks,
the *most likely* number.  For all our uncertainty, the *most likely* case for
Maddux remains .271, and for Glavine, .282.  

It's just a fact of the universe that there can be a PROFOUND difference between
A and B, and yet we can be unsure of that difference because of insufficient
sample size.  Our being unsure does not mean we should not try to make a best
estimate of the difference, howeever.

--
----
Eric M. Van
em...@post.harvard.edu

". . . from that day forward she lived happily ever after.  Except for the dying
at the end.  And the heartbreak in between." - Lucius Shepard.


    Forward  
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.

Create a group - Google Groups - Google Home - Terms of Service - Privacy Policy
©2010 Google